ADRIAN MA, HOST:
Here in the U.S., the war has prompted many Iranian Americans to take to the streets to express their opposition to the Iranian regime. In the past month, we've seen demonstrations in LA and New York. And today, there was one in D.C. Ramtin Arablouei, cohost of NPR's history podcast, Throughline, was at that rally.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (Chanting in non-English language).
UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: (Chanting in non-English language).
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (Chanting in non-English language).
UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: (Chanting in non-English language).
RAMTIN ARABLOUEI, BYLINE: We are here at the National Mall, where there is a demonstration taking place in support of Reza Pahlavi, who many Iranian Americans support as a potential future leader of Iran if the Islamic republic were to fall. The crowd is about a couple of thousand people, it appears. Organizers have told me they expect upwards of a hundred thousand, but we're nowhere near that number right now, I feel.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (Chanting in non-English language).
UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: (Chanting in non-English language).
ARABLOUEI: The crowd is chanting, "this is the final battle. Pahlavi will return."
MA: This rally did not come out of nowhere. It's tied to a long-standing debate among Iranians in the country and the diaspora over who should govern Iran. For more context, we're joined now by Ramtin in the studio. Ramtin, thanks for being here.
ARABLOUEI: Thanks for having me, Adrian.
MA: And can you start by telling us more about what you saw at this D.C. demonstration?
ARABLOUEI: Yes. So when we arrived, there was, you know, a very large crowd of diverse set of Iranians, mostly Iranian Americans, flying flags, holding up the picture of Reza Pahlavi. And we saw a bunch of different flags. There was the lion and sun flag, which is the flag of Iran that was there before the Islamic revolution in 1979. We saw people holding American flags and even Israeli flags, which I know for a lot of listeners, that's confusing, right? Like, why are they holding up the flag of a country that's attacking them? But I think it's a pretty simple explanation. For many of these protesters who we talked to, it's basically a enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend situation. And that's exactly what one of the protesters told me, named Leila Rak (ph).
LEILA RAK: They are bringing peace in the whole world. That's...
ARABLOUEI: Israel.
RAK: Israel, of course, with the help of United States, which we are very grateful because Israel - they know what we are going through.
(CROSSTALK)
RAK: You have to have been living under this fascist regime so that you understand what is this.
MA: Interesting. Ramtin, earlier this year, you did an episode of Throughline on the anti-government protests that swept Iran at the end of 2025 and earlier this year. How do you see today's actions fitting into that history?
ARABLOUEI: Well, I think what we saw today really does capture the kind of complex feelings Iranian Americans have about the war and, I think, their anger towards the Islamic republic. But it also really captures the difficulty of looking to the future of Iran. You know, since the protests started in January, this has been a big topic of conversation, and a lot of people have thrown their support behind Reza Pahlavi and sort of see him as a transitional leader. And I wondered about that. I actually asked a guest on that episode about why they feel that way. And I think she captured the answer, which I saw today, as well, which is it's about nostalgia. I think a lot of people think about pre-1979 Iran, the time of the shah, and remembered it as a better time, that their material lives were better during the shah. And I think that's what's captured this moment.
MA: I mean, of course, a lot has changed in Iran since you published that episode.
ARABLOUEI: Yes, definitely. I mean, as you know, listeners will know, the U.S. and Israel have now conducted a massive air attack, which is ongoing. Iran's supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, you know, has been killed. But that anti-regime feeling that was really alive back in January, especially for Iranian Americans, that's still very much alive. And the thing is, people seem to understand - the people we asked today - that the U.S. and Israel are not necessarily doing this to help the Iranian people.
You know, I asked one protester named Ramin (ph) that very same question. He didn't want to give us his last name because he said he feared reprisal from the government in Iran if he gave it to us. But I asked him that question directly. Do you think the U.S. and Israel are doing this to help the Iranian people? And his answer was really interesting.
RAMIN: Every country, they think about their benefits and about their interests.
ARABLOUEI: Yeah.
RAMIN: Yeah, of course. That's very normal. And we do not expect any country to come and spend millions and trillions of dollars just for the good of the people, just because we want this or we want that. They do this - but right now, our interests are aligned.
MA: Right now. You know, your work is all about putting current events in historical context. What do you think today's rally tells us about the politics of the Iranian diaspora?
ARABLOUEI: First, I want to say that the crowd that we talk to today is definitely not representative of the entire Iranian American diaspora. There are lots of complex views. There are many Iranian Americans who are against this war. There's even some who are in support of the regime in Iran. But I do think it represents how many Iranians and, I would say, probably most Iranian Americans feel about their desperate need to want to see the Islamic republic fall.
Now, with regards to Reza Pahlavi, which is what these protesters were there supporting today, they seem to really be rallying behind him, not necessarily because they support the idea of a monarchy or that they even see him as a permanent leader for Iran. But they want to rally around someone. And what he's providing is basically some kind of symbol or a symbolic leadership for people to jump behind and say we want this to replace the Islamic republic.
MA: We've been speaking with Ramtin Arablouei, cohost of NPR's history podcast, Throughline. Ramtin, thanks for your reporting.
ARABLOUEI: Thanks so much for having me.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MAN AMADEH AM")
GOOGOOSH: (Singing in non-English language). Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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